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Blackmoor VituperativeTesting the limits of customer loyalty
From time to time I have frequented the Hero Games online forums. Most of the time, I find that useful: I ask questions, and once in a while I am able to answer other people’s questions. Unfortunately, once in a great while, I encounter someone who would rather argue than collaborate, and who would rather attack than agree to disagree. Even more unfortunately, one of those people is the system administrator, Dan Simon (the same gentleman who created the best Hero System character creator program so far, Hero Designer).
Once I realize that conversations with individuals like this always end the same way, I take the path of discretion and simply stop talking to them. That seems to work, and things are generally pleasant from that point on. Unfortunately, Dan Simon recently took exception to something I said in one of the topics he reads. Very strong exception. It became clear to me that this was heading the way all conversations with him do, so I bowed out of it, and stopped reading that topic entirely.
(He and several other people took exception to my shocking and controversial observations that:
- A prudent consumer tries something before she buys it. (Corollary: As the cost of an item increases, particularly in relation to the consumer’s income, the importance of being a prudent consumer also increases.)
- A fool and her money are soon parted.
From the reaction, I may as well have condoned terrorism as a fun and rewarding leisure-time activity.)
A week later — today — he sent me a private message “strongly suggesting” that I return to the topic and “respond to the issues which had been raised”. He also demanded that I apologize to “people I have offended”, and that I alter my “posting behavior”. As the sysadmin and a Hero Games representative, Dan has the power to make these demands. My reply was a) that I saw no reason to perpetuate a pointless argument, and continuing to beat that particular horse would not be productive, b) that I wasn’t aware of saying anything that merited an apology, and c) that I’d comply with any reasonable request as far as my behavior was concerned, but that he would need to be more specific. (I am not spinning my reply, here. This is exactly what I said and how I phrased it.)
I went back to the forum a short time later, expecting to find a message from him telling me who deserved an apology and why, and giving me some kind of hint as to what behavior he wanted me to modify and how. Instead, I saw this:
You have been banned for the following reason:
NoneDate the ban will be lifted: Never
Um… okay.
So apparently, declining an invitation to take part in a flame war is grounds for being banned for life from the Hero Games forums. I can get around the ban itself easily enough (although I won’t): that’s not the point.
In the past, I’ve taken Dan’s tantrums with what I think is pretty good humor. I’ve never threatened to boycott the purchase of Hero Games’ products, or anything silly like that. I have even continued to recommend the purchase of Hero Designer to everyone I know, which directly puts money in Dan Simon’s pocket. But I am wondering if perhaps my affection for the game system — which predates the current incarnation of “DOJ dba Hero Games” by a decade or so, back to the days of Champions — is clouding my judgement. Would I allow the representative of any other business to treat me rudely without there being some repercussion, even if that repercussion is merely that I stop giving them my money? Would you?
I have made Hero Games aware of my concerns and given them time to respond, but I doubt that will lead anywhere productive. The powers-that-be at “DOJ dba Hero Games” are aware of Dan’s behavior, and have been for a very long time (a year or more, at least). At what point do I finally permit Simon’s behavior to alter my relationship with the business that allows him to act in its name, and which has implicitly approved of how he has used that authority?
It won’t hurt me to stop giving Hero Games my money. I will get everything I need to play role-playing games with or without buying Hero Games’ products. But should I take that step? Has it finally, sadly, gone that far?
March 28th, 2006 at 05:18
I find it interesting you were banned because you wouldn’t go back and stir the pot effectively. As for not buying Hero product, if that is how you feel go for it. It is always a tough decision, but in the end if you will feel better for not supporting them, you have to do what is right for you.
March 28th, 2006 at 20:24
Hmm. Okay I have read through the whole thread, and can’t for the life of me figure out why you where banned especially when you look at the comments other where saying, and the fact that you repeatedly supported his right to sell the product how he wanted to and also said it was worth owning.
March 28th, 2006 at 20:33
I think you should log into HG under a different name and post Dan’s message.
March 28th, 2006 at 20:57
I don’t have access to Dan’s message because it’s in my private messages under my banned account, which I can’t log into. Convenient for him, I guess.
Incidentally, after I got banned my curiosity got the better of me and I’ve since gone back and read the rest of that thread. I didn’t know anything about Dan’s “official” warning until after he banned me, and he knows/knew that. But as with the situation when I pointed out the obvious with regard to Kara/Fred Bittick, reality doesn’t matter on the Hero boards. People believe lies because that’s what they want to believe.
March 28th, 2006 at 23:31
Hello there,
I was annoyed enough about your banning to seek out your website, since there was no point responding to the thread. I don’t know what the relationship between Dan Simon and the rest of the Hero crew is, but it used to bother me every time I saw him drive away another customer with his attitude, and I used to wonder why they allowed it. It no longer bothers me, because I finally realized that DOJ is NOT the Hero System, Steve Long is NOT the Hero System, WE the FANS are the Hero System.
The Hero system was alive before they took over, even if no new products were being created, and it will hopefully exist long after they are gone.
The best part about Hero is, once you have the main rulebook, including the 4th Ed. rulebook, if you prefer, you can do everything else yourself. Unlike a lot of systems, there is no need to buy anything else.
Which means that I can go on playing Hero without buying another thing from DOJ. And at this point that may very well be the case.
I have had my share of unprovoked run-ins with Dan Simon.
One of the most ridiculous was concerning the absence of the Personal/Universal option when choosing a Focus in Hero Designer.
The whole thing started when a new player asked if it was possible to create a Focus that only the owner could use. I did not have my copy of the 5th Ed. rules with me, but I did have Hero Designer on the PC I was using, so I did a quick check.
When I found Focus: Applicability missing from HD, I began to wonder if it had been eliminated in 5th Ed. I posted a question in the Rules forum, and Steve assured me that it was still part of the game, so I very politely asked Dan why it wasn’t included.
His first response was polite, but didn’t really make any sense.
It was basically: Focus Applicability has not been used in any published write-up, so it doesn’t need to be part of Hero Designer.
When I pressed the point, he became predictably rude, and then shut down the thread. (This was in the days before Dan was a Moderator, which is probably why I wasn’t banned for heresy.)
I sent a very reasonable letter to Steve Long about the situation and never received a reply.
Anyway, I am not saying that you have never rubbed anyone the wrong way, but I didn’t see anything in that thread that was ban-worthy.
Most likely one of the hyper-sensitive made a complaint which Dan then used as an excuse to ban you.
I am sure that it will happen to me one day.
Some day, when the remnants of DOJ are sitting around wondering what happened to their company, and why they no longer have any fans, they will hopefully think back to this sort of thing.
Allowing someone to ‘bait and ban’ is no way to maintain a fanbase.
Having such a strong web presence is a two-edged sword.
When new players come to the message boards and have their questions answered by Steve Long himself, it gives them a feeling of closeness to the company.
But that also makes them feel like the way they are treated on the boards is a direct reflection of how the company ‘feels’ about them.
If anyone walked into a brick and mortar store and received the kind of tongue-lashing that Simon dishes out, or if they were ‘thrown out’ of the store for some minor infraction, they would never shop there again.
No matter how much everyone may deny it, Dan Simon is a very visible part of DOJ’s public persona, and the way he behaves can and does alienate customers.
If I own a store and hire an independent firm to provide security, and those guards proceed to belittle, harass, and insult my customers, I can shout to high heaven that they: “Don’t directly work for me!” all day long.
But that won’t stop those customers from leaving and never coming back.
Everyone else I have dealt with at DOJ has seemed perfectly reasonable, but it is impossible not to judge them by what they allow Dan Simon to do.
KA.
P.S. If/when someone from DOJ sees this post, I will probably be banned too. But, if preserving Dan’s ego is more important than retaining customers, then that is their decision.
March 29th, 2006 at 00:22
Oh, I doubt you’d be banned for posting something here.
March 30th, 2006 at 02:57
I believe it has happened before, although under more questionable circumstances. Without naming any names . . .
There was a big blowup among a group of Hero Board posters that were close at one time and then had a falling out. Complaints were lodged against one member of the group due to things they were saying on another message board, and the contents of those posts, on another board, caused them to be banned from the Hero Boards.
So don’t doubt that it is possible, although it is not necessarily probable.
March 30th, 2006 at 09:54
As far as other Hero Games reps being perfectly reaasonable, they’re only human, and they have bad days like anyone else. Ben Seeman (another moderator of the Hero Games forums) has been snotty on more than one occasion for little or no reason. But human beings are imperfect creatures, and I don’t hold a momentary laspe against anyone. I am certainly not perfect, either! It’s Dan Simon’s consistent, ongoing trend of behaving in a shameful manner toward Hero Games customers, and the consistent failure of Hero Games to do anything about it — not even apologizing for it, much less making any effort to change it — that has finally brought me to the point where I’d consider cutting them off financially.
It’s just so unprofessional. That’s what really baffles me. Running a successful business is difficult: running a business honorably and with dignity is not (although it is rare). Then again, Steve Long himself treated me with a pointed lack of respect last year when I offered to do some work for them (for free), so maybe I should not be surprised. (I have never talked about that incident, frankly because I think it makes Steve Long and “DOJ dba Hero Games” look bad. But now I am thinking that it may have been one point on a curve rather than an isolated incident.)
It’s just so … disappointing.
March 30th, 2006 at 23:02
If you don’t feel like posting the incident publicly, and don’t mind sharing it via an email, I would be interested in hearing the details.
I think it is shameful that Dan is allowed to basically bait people into ban-worthy behavior through his own rudeness, and then ban then.
After that it seems like the entire company views that person as one of the ‘enemy’, or a ‘troublemaker’, as opposed to just someone who had the nerve to treat Dan they same way they were treated by him.
I can’t understand it.
Either Dan must be a dear personal friend of everyone at DOJ, or he must be a major investor, or he must have them over a barrel due to some type of agreement concerning hosting the boards or developing Hero Designer.
Whatever the case is, letting him interact directly with customers, which is what those who post on the Hero Boards generally are, is a mistake.
KA.
March 31st, 2006 at 00:27
I think it is a mistake to assume that “DOJ dba Hero Games” disapproves of Dan’s behavior, and that they only put up with it because he has some other value to them which outweighs any displeasure they feel. At this point, it is very tempting for me to believe that he acts exactly how they want him to act. I think Dan’s behavior is a symptom, not the problem itself.
That being said, I really don’t want to continue to dwell on the negative. I contacted Steve Long and Ben Seeman and informed them of what transpired. I’ll give them a week or so and see how they respond. I expect there to be no response at all, actually, but honor demands that I give them the opportunity to make amends. I am trying to keep an open mind until then.
April 1st, 2006 at 19:54
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